Butler on Business weighs in on the gold market.
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I have called 3 dealers and would have no problem buying right now. Who are you guys calling?
Har
I’ve been doing my own follow-up regarding many of the claims about “shortages on silver and gold” bullion and it simply isn’t true from what I’m finding. Two dealers in my area said they received A LOT of inventory on Friday when the metals got smashed. Now they are getting more coming in through the door, mostly from people who bought near $1750 and $1850. Junk silver is the only thing I HAVE found that seems to be in a “somewhat” limited supply, but bullion rounds and bars are there and plenty of them.
Thanks Mark A,
Big Al
One of the best/reputable dealers here. Been in business 50 years….He has SEVENTEEN PARTIES OF PEOPLE ON A WAITING LIST FOR SILVER AS OF THIS MORNING. 04/15/2013.
Wow, Marc, that is a big number!
BigAl
Interesting question and response. In fairness, Mark, your dealer sized-up his supply on Friday, but the reports from others here on the blog preceded that date.
Evening John! How the heck are you?
You are absolutely right about prior statements regarding the shortage of silver. I went back and looked on Thursday’s blog posting and found one. But in fairness too, not ALL dealers are experiencing this and have not experienced this…yet, but these are for the most part much smaller shops and businesses in regions that don’t have a lot of interested precious metals investors (like out here). So my bias was slanted to what I have access to. Thus, to me, and others, what we hear and see doesn’t match up with other regions of the country and what they are reporting. It is like another world. My dealers have in stock, what is in line with my buying habits, so another reason I was questioning a lot of remarks being made.
I also feel that since I was honest enough to supply the websites and cities of the dealers I deal with, I find it odd that I am supposed to take on face value a report from KWN that the LBMA is experiencing a default on physical silver. We’ve heard this before. Maybe its true this time, I don’t know. There WILL come a time that is for sure. But I just think that if I am going through the steps to provide full disclosure, I sure expect it from the challenging party as well, thus my questioning of the KWN posts. My apologies
Full disclosure is critically important.
Big Al
I’m great, sir! I think the question of who really is short and who isn’t was excellent. There’s too much “gut feeling”. I also like that you (and others) gave some sources. That’s the first thing I look at on any chart, so my goodness, don’t apologize.
How about you guys who claim plenty of supply, giving out names and phone numbers of yor dealers, we will see how long supply lasts.
@har
I completely agree! The dealer in my hometown has silver and gold, people are not lining up to buy it, either. It’s interesting that these individuals who claim dealers have none never specifically mention who the dealers are. I believe it’s all a load of B.S.
Furthermore, if you want to buy gold or silver, you simply have to log onto Ebay and you can purchase as much as you want.
I agree, small amounts 10-25 ounces of gold 500-1000 ounces of silver are easy to buy, I suppose the big guys trying to buy million dollar lots are having problems.
Merit now out of bags and 100 oz bars of silver.
Another BIG dealer:
http://www.meritgold.com/products/silver/bullion
Check out their website:
Howabout posting your dealers with lots of oz available?
http://silverdoctors.com/cnt-sold-out-of-all-physical-silver/
wholesalers out of silver
Bobby , well done, did you read the comment section…Pop over folks have a read.
I think someone is trying to corner the silver market……could that be you IRISH HUNT BROTHER
Tulving did not have silver bags on Friday. Still don’t
This is a MAJOR dealer!
See for yourself:
http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html
I can confirm there is no shortage in my area too. Is it sellers who are promoting this idea? Reason I ask is that premiums are up so there is maybe an agenda at play. If sellers can convince buyers we are running out of supply they won’t hesitate to pay top dollar. It is such a self defeating process as I see it.
I will repeat again there is no physical supply issues. My dealer has all the gold I want to buy. Fly by night dealers working out of their coolers maybe are out of gold. Big time legitimate dealers are not. You have to stop reporting this! Do your fact checks first!!
We have a guy on this sight running around pointing everyone to these scare tactic articles that don’t have a single word of substantiated facts. Stop It already!!
James
I completely agree!
Care to post your dealer websites please?
Again, as I stated above, certain types of junk silver seem to be the only thing that’s limited.
Apmex might be considered a somewhat higher-margin vendor. I would exhaust several other choices first before going there.
That depends on what you buy. I don’t buy all my products there, as I have noticed a variation in premiums across some types of bullion.
Come on James, tell us names of suppliers + websites.
http://www.apmex.com just sent me an email: Gold eagles ready for immediate delivery
Btw, apmex is the 2nd largest retail dealer in the country…not sure who is #1. They have both gold and silver….just not as much as they usually have.
bobby there total sales are about $50 mill ,from what I remember…really not that much for being the second …..what about lear…the are out of platinum and have been for months….TRY NORTHWEST,,,OR SUNSHINE…..
typo…their sales….sorry brain freeze
Thank YOU!
James,
Please point out what false information is being posted!
Big Al
I stated a little while ago it was red flags time, well here it is. Information needs to be confirmed and verified.
James, You do realize the Paper Precious metal market is about 100 times the size of the physical, but the money involved, because of leverage is about the same.
This situation will be resolved fairly soon, because even those “claiming plenty of supply” that I’ve called are not being pinned down about delivery. Well, it might be about a month, does not cut it as far as I’m concerned. Is they are asking for cash on the barrel head I expect delivery within packing and shipping time of up to a week. If they say a month – they DON’T have supply.
CFS…great report on LBMA at KWN…. concerning shortage of physical…
CNBC IS NOW STATING THAT THE STOCK MARKET IS SELLING OFF DUE TO MARGIN REQUIREMENTS ON GOLD. THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF 2007
That is also interesting James,
Big Al
CNBC WILL NOW START PARADING ONE “EXPERT” after the other all tripping over themselves with wildly bearish calls on gold. You will hear $1000 gold, $800 gold, $500 gold…insanity…
CNBC CLAIMING THE SELL OFF TOWARDS THE END OF THE TRADING SESSION DUE TO THE BOSTON MARATHON EXPLOSION. BS! This market is tanking because it is over bought, the emperor has no clothes and we are in a deflationary death spiral. Gold signaled this first,the stock market is catching up.
It is over when the fat lady sings and I don’t believe that she has yet!
Big Al
At Providentmetals.com I noticed the below banner posted at the top of their page:
NOTICE: We are experiencing extremely high order volumes and our servers are being strained. As a result, the website is slower than normal and we are unable to process orders over the phone. Please continue trying to place your order online. We are working to resolve the issue and appreciate your patience. Thank you for choosing Provident Metals!
CFS – don’t you know suppliers and websites, you seem to know everything
I do not know of dealers with significant inventory anywhere.
Here is the latest update to my knowledge regarding physical supply as of about an hour ago with my dealer…which I posted on another thread…
ArmieD (and all) in the interest of fair and accurate information getting dispersed – I just called up my dealer, a big and old dealer. They stopped selling silver today. The mint is quoting them 4 to 6 weeks delivery. 100 ounce bars are 95 cents over spot. No problem with gold at all. Hope this helps everyone…
Reply to this comment
http://www.londoncoin.com/
Newport Beach, CA
1:45pm today “no inventory of silver or gold” this is in the heart of Orange County CA
Many thanks rehabdoc!
By the way, my wife is a retired rehabtherapist!
Big Al
So, it appears that some regions of the country are having shortages of bullion versus other regions, which makes sense. Those that have the cash are buying up what they can in the areas they live.
Now here is something interesting which leads some credence to CSF and what others are saying. The owner of Phil’s Coin shop in Wichita, KS says that he has not been able to KEEP junk silver in his store for very long. It sells faster than his gold bullion. Plus most of the gold bullion that he has, goes out the door pretty quickly. He hasn’t updated his website but you can tell from the website that his inventories are not up to snuff.
YOu can check it out here http://www.philscoins.com
And…
The coin dealer in Hutchinson, KS ( who has no website, sorry) says that he has SOME junk silver, but nothing like he used to six to eight months ago. He has some generic rounds and a FEW of the more popular government issued silver rounds but as far as junk silver goes, he has less than $200 face value in the store, most of it being peace dollars, washington quarters and Roosevelt dimes and THAT came in on Saturday AFTER Friday’s big smash. But gold bullion inventories haven’t changed much.
Again Mark A,
Thanks
Big Al
Mark, you posted Apmex earlier. After wasting time on their (800) 375-9006, they have NO silver 100 oz bars, or junk silver bags. STRIKE 1.
CFS
100 oz bars and and CERTAIN junk silver bags are not a strike! They still have silver bullion rounds of various types, so STRIKE on your part and TAG your it! Also didn’t hear any statements, o read any statement about gold bullion being NOT AVAILABLE – STRIKE 2.
I suggest you read this and learn something, Mark.
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/4/15_Maguire_-_LBMA_Default_Triggered_Gold_%26_Silver_Takedown.html
As I have been posting in this forum for some time; LBMA is almost out of physical.
Dealers are almost out of physical.
Sure you can buy odd coins all over, but when it comes to tradeable physical in quantity, the cupboard is almost empty.
Oh yeah! Andrew Maquire has NEVER been wrong about gold and silver – no sirree. Oh wait! Didn’t HE say that we were in a BOTTOMING PROCESS back in oohhhhh….when was that…oohhhhh…LATE FEBRUARY? He sure did! And he ridiculed $1200 gold.
No CSF…I suggest YOU read THIS and learn something, another truly trustworthy article.
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/2/23_Maguire_-_Stunning_%2424_Premiums_For_Gold_In_Shanghai.html
So, did you happen to contact LBMA to verify what Maquire said? You seem to have no problem contacting bullion dealers, so why not the LBMA?
And just what makes you think I don’t own tradeable silver in a quantity that is sufficient for me? What constitutes quantity for an individual? 100% of their assests? 25%, 50%, less, more?
There might be a lot of dealers out there claiming to have stock , but just how long is it going to take for you to receive it if you place an order . The only way to find out for certain is to visit them & see for yourself….jmo.
The problem with silver rounds is that there is a tendency for dealers to only want to buy them, if they sold them to you. You obviously have not bought and sold sufficient quantities before to have any experience. 100 oz bars and junk bags of silver are tradeable almost anywhere in the world. If you did not notice silver (having a higher beta) went down further and thus obvious has GREATER PROBABILITY OF GOING UP FURTHER ON RECOVERY.. I’m in this business for profit, not charity. I’m almost out of buying capability, but still have a few hundred K to go, and am prepared to wait a few years for recovery.
My primary reason for not buying gold at this time is that it is increasingly difficult to take out of the US, and I simply don’t trust that it will not be confiscated.
CSF
Your wonderful tactic of demeaning my “experience” at buying and selling silver still doesn’t explain the fact that silver is still available as well as gold. I can’t argue with your points and reasons for buying silver stated above, as I agree completely with them. And if the government wants to confiscate silver they can it if they want to.
I have one question…and not trying to be smart…..but,with silver ,,,how do you over come all the weight …..10,000 oz..is a lot of weight to move around….where as gold in the same value is no problem…..
The Tall,
I have posed that same question more than once!
Big Al
My son just called from Huntsville, Ala. He went to a local coin dealer—-charging 15% over spot price for gold and $5.00 over spot price for silver Eagles.
Richard, I don’t believe you would experience those problems if you buy from Kitco in fact in the past a number of times I have seen supply more constrained and Kitco is CDN but they have operations in London and New York. DT
Don’t beat the drum too loudly there are supplies that I know would not make it hard for me to get a large order filled if I chose at going rates. DT
https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist_CAD.html What shortage? DT
Deflation is what is happening, all this talk of shortages now is silly talk. DT
Colonial Acres has been a little gem for me over the years, but they’re also $5+ per ounce over spot. That seems to be the market today. Volatility adds premiums to everything.
It may be available, but I’d hardly call $30 silver in a $25 dollar market a deal!
My question is……So, if gold is selling off, and people are selling gold while they can to cut their losses—-just who is buying it and why would those fools want it???
The fools are only about 3.5 billion people in India, China and and rest of non debt world. So I suppose those who go deep into debt are smart because they figure someone else will pay for it.
The people who make money are the ones who dispense their debt as soon as possible, otherwise you are indentured to your debt. The real money makers are the clever traders like “Soros” who tell you to sell while they are buying and don’t hold long enough to get caught in a ” Bear Trap.” DT
More good points from you,Machine Gun!
Big Al
Boy, CLAY…. EXACTLY!
The IQ isn’t important, it’s the quantity, as you point out so well Clay!
Mnh it is a market driven by emotions not more complicated than that. The sellers think it is going lower, the buyers think it is going higher. Both will be right at times, both will be wrong at times. Bottom line is when you have a good profit take it and get out.
You know James,
To a large extent, I agree with you.
Big Al
That is it if you have a profit sell, how else do you make money. DT
Depends on what the magnitude of that profit to be is compared to your expectations, Machine Gun.
Big Al
Anyone interested might find 100 oz bars here (It looks like there’s a delay for everything else):
http://www.coloradogold.com/silver_royal_canadian_mint_100_oz-43.html
Don Stott has been in business for 35 years and has always provided me with flawless service.
Thanks, Matthew, that was what I was asking for. I have not bought from Canada before, usually use US and English wholesalers.
You’ve probably already noticed, but he’s in Colorado, not Canada. I should have linked to the Johnson Matthey bars instead of the Royal Canadian Mint bars.
Thanks for the to poo Matthew!
Big Al
I said earlier I can get any number of 100 oz bars of silver I want and there is no problem with gold. This happened before a few years ago and it was a temporary disruption. If gold and silver continue to go down some physical will be freed up. There’s a big difference between no silver available and a bottleneck getting it. I personally have no problem waiting 4 to 6 weeks to take possession…
James, a 4-6 week delay means none available. If I were placing a large order in this environment, I would not accept any delay. By allowing your dealer to short the metal in order to provide it, you are not only aiding the bears, but you risk being forced to settle in paper.
But are you really buying those 100oz bars, James? I would have to say a person would not be a very discriminating buyer to purchase any quantity in bulk right now. As with options and futures, volatility seems to add ridiculous premiums to the underlying of interest.
I like checking around the country and asking friends here-and-there what the local situation is like, but of course, we aren’t hearing from anyone yet outside the United States or North America.
UPDATE: ALL US WHOLESALE SUPPLIERS ARE NOW SOLD OUT OF EVERY OUNCE OF PHYSICAL SILVER & HAVE SUSPENDED ALL SALES! SDBullion.com has closed due to lack of ANY AVAILABLE SILVER!
I got this from the silver doc site.
https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist_USD.html How could that be when Al who produces programs for kitco clearly now has silver for sale, DT
Wrong Machine we Gun! I have absolutely no silver for sale! I am not an idiot!!
Big Al
I will have to have my last statement adjusted by the proofreader. DT
I dont know dt, only thing I can think of is maybe retailers still have some? Odd that silver doc would post something not true, they are saying wholesalers tho, thought it might explain cfs having trouble finding some.
kwn has the second half of the maguire interview, adds a little to the story.
Tomorrow morning I am calling up my dealer again. Last I checked he hadm100 oz silver bars available with 4 to 6 week delivery at 95 cents over spot.
John W Robertson – first of all I didn’t say I was buying any 100 oz bars right now, only that they are available. Secondly if they have run out there are a lot of not very discriminating buyers wouldn’t you say? Third la quote of 95 cents over spot right now is 4 Percent premium, that has always been the going rate, so how is that such a big premium?
Because the don’t want to sell product at a price more than they bought it for.
DT – did you actually try placing an order on this site. Perhaps when you go to actually place it you might be told none available?
I buy through Kitco all the time and have done so for many years and I have also sold silver back to them only 2 years ago and I can say that buying from them over their website or by phone has been straightforward and to the letter. DT
James, if they do not have stock you will not see anything listed on their website. DT
Oil getting crushed also, $ still not above 83
Thanks, at least for the lead. Turns out colorado gold buys his silver from A-mark out of California and just adds 0.75% commission, A-mark is one of the big dealers I had already tried and they were out of everything but coins and small bars, but I have a lead that should pan out, sorry not to give a name, because I want to buy in a few days/week or so, once silver has stabilized. Once I’ve bought I’ll post the name, if there’s any silver left.
As I posted earlier, if JPMorgan is prepared to kill the goose, there is absolutely nothing I can think of (Other than CFTC Reg action, but Chilton is fast asleep) that would stop JPMorgan naked shorting down almost to zero, defaulting and settling in fiat. It would appear that Morgan is nakedly shorting more than a year’s world-wide production of silver at this time, and together with other bank more than a Year’s production of gold.
If you want to see the shorting action of the Bank back in 2008, JpMorgan and another bank had about 10 year’s silver production in option, shorting and swaps risk: Testimony to yhe CFTC commission, post-Lehman collapse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yeUI87hSvr0
DT seems to be conflicting news then. Kitco has product and my dealer has product.
See what happens tomorrow if this changes…
Folks, you do realize this was not simple people buying and selling precious metal and oil today. This was NOT trading action as a result of Cyprus selling gold, or bombs going off in Boston. This was deliberate manipulation. Pure and simple. Manipulation allowed because of STUPID failure of CFTC Commissioners to regulate. It was manipulation for profit. It was manipulation to try and stop the physical market from collapse and thus voiding the paper price of PMs. The unregulated and corrupt use of naked shorting if you have access to adequate money, is guaranteed to work to produce gbreat profit. It is immoral, but as long as the Commissioners turn a blind eye, it is not illegal.
Reading my comments about OH THEY JACKED UP THE PREMIUMS. Of course, do you think the dealers want to sell at a lose? They are the modern day money changers. They will either jack up the premiums or say they are out. It is not rocket science here, people.
No har afraid you are wrong on this one. You said it yourself, they are money changers. They make money on the transaction, they take money off the top on the buy and the sell. As long as there’s a market they make money. Only very small time operators might buy their own stock and try to sell at a profit
They have to buy product to sell. How many have product left they bought a prices lower then now? Answer: None. They jack up the premiums to cover their spread.
Or they say they are waiting for stock.
No har wrong again. They are simply the middle man in the transaction. If they are out of stock it is not because they have stock they don’t want to sell at a loss. It is because none of their clients are selling. Either a client sells there gold back to them and they turn around and sell to someone else, making money on both sides of the trade or they buy it from the mint and sell to who wants it, again making money on the spread. It’s not collocates for every buyer there is a seller. If there are no sellers, like some are claiming now, then they legitably dont have product to sell, if the mint is backed up
You are right James, real bullion dealers operate on spreads and commissions. They don’t speculate.
What no one is talking about. All these new PM ETFs. There are double and triple leveraged bullish ETFs. If you add up all their market caps – there is no way there is this much precious metals.